Teen Wolf wank and more thoughts on fandom/slash

[mf_luder_xf]

Right after I made my last post concerning the article suggesting we push for certain ships to be canon, Tyler Posey of Teen Wolf comes out and says Sterek is a “bizarre, weird, twisted thing”. To me, aptly on point with my comments in that, Posey and his character have often been overlooked in favor of Sterek. I get that he probably feels a little annoyed with Sterek fandom.

I find his comments entirely indicative of this pushing for a pairing. So in that sense, I understand him lashing out. I don't suddenly hate Tyler for making his comments. It is to me, exactly like Michael Shanks expressing disgust at the pairing of Daniel and Jack. I don't think either actor is particularly, specifically homophobic.

In the immediate wake of Posey's comments, I saw a FLURRY of support Sterek posts (on tumblr), often by Destiel fans who were commiserating with the Sterek shippers because of the whole WB guy who made his anti-Destiel and anti-bisexual Dean comments on twitter. And a few TW blogs I follow pointed out the problematic issues of Posey's comments. I, personally, am more of the second type of post mindset than the first. I, at least, don't need commiseration.

However, in the last few days, all I'm seeing are posts to support Tyler in the wake of these words. And while I don't dislike Posey as a person suddenly (and I certainly don't dislike Scott, I love Scott) and again, I would never shove Sterek in his or the show's face, I'm sorry, but I just can't support him in this. And I don't understand the massive movement to support Tyler because of his words when he's calling Sterek - and frankly, on a broad level, fandom itself - bizarre and twisted. I will NEVER support someone in those comments. I don't support Michael Shank's disgust and I won't support Tyler's, not when both call something I enjoy (whether its the pairing itself or slash generally) to be disgusting. You don't have to get why I want to sit around and read stories about two particular characters having sex and you can think it's weird in your head as much as you want, but that's like someone saying "sitting around watching football all Sunday? What a horrible, twisted thing to do. You're a loser for liking this". Like, don't rain on my parade because it's not something you like to do or even something you don't "understand". The pairing isn't hurting someone.

I don't care if Sterek shippers have caused you problems; it's individuals who are the problem, not the ship itself. I do not like being called twisted because I like something when I have never once not supported you.

And so no, I WON'T support Posey in this particular situation. I don't think he needs a bunch of letters telling him "you poor boy, I'm so sorry they picked on you, mean Sterek shippers!" He needs to be told to NOT COMMENT if he can't say anything nice.

Likewise, fans, interviewers and such should fucking STOP ASKING him about it. Stop throwing your ship in the face of these people because THIS IS WHAT WE GET. Do you LIKE being told how gross you are? Is that the goal so you can have righteous indignation?

But even if I understand it, I will not support it and neither should anyone else who supports fandom as a thing.

Comments

[fanarts-series.livejournal.com]

Totally agreed, i was offended too.
Even if he's bitter because Stiles, Derek and Sterek are populars he could have responded "i have nothing to say about this" or "no comment"
Some people excuse him and apologize about our reaction, it's not because he's the lead that he can said what he wants, specially the way he did without consequence.

And it's not a first, i saw an interview where he was saying a fuck you to Jeff Davis because Jeff wasn't happy with his new tattoos.
I think that people mix the cute Scott and the actor, Posey can be a douche when he wants.

He hurts a lot of people, some fans are young and don't have the shoulders for this kind of comments, i saw a tweet where the girl wanted to cut herself because she couldn't support his comment.

He's a public figure and should learn to shut his mouth.

In another way see how offended Holland was, like if she was eating a lemon and Tyler Hoechlin was a gentleman, he supports sterek so much.

[twisting-vine-x.livejournal.com]

Random response is random, but - yes, this. Exactly.

He hurts a lot of people, some fans are young and don't have the shoulders for this kind of comments, i saw a tweet where the girl wanted to cut herself because she couldn't support his comment.

This is a show called Teen Wolf, for crying out loud. For all that the show's finally gaining credibility, it started out as an often corny (though always adorable ♥) show that was largely about teenagers; and I'd bet there are a lot of incredibly young Sterek shippers in this fandom. Probably many of whom are not straight, and who are embracing Sterek and Teen Wolf fandom as a place to explore non-heteronormative ideas and relationships; and to have the show's main actor refer to a gay relationship as bizarre and weird and twisted? Even if he wasn't going for homophobia (and I honestly don't think he was - I mean, looking at his super affectionate and open relationship with Dylan, I just can't get my head around the idea of Posey being actively homophobic), that's exactly how it came across; and my heart's breaking for anyone in this fandom who was hurt, but it would be especially awful for people who are young and have had their up-til-now queer-friendly portion of the internet turned into a homophobic warzone.

ETA: In another way see how offended Holland was, like if she was eating a lemon and Tyler Hoechlin was a gentleman, he supports sterek so much.

Holland's reaction was a thing of beauty. And Hoechlin is a gift to this fandom and this planet, I swear. He's just always so sweet and supportive and all-around-accepting and ugh. So much respect for that man. ♥

[mf_luder_xf]

Ah, the ever revolving problem of tattoos in acting.lol In that issue, I give Jeff the right because actors aren't supposed to have tattoos in the first place (what I was taught) and certainly not in the middle of a show/movie. (I don't let Jeff off on other things.)

I'm glad the others are generally supportive.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_profiterole_/]

I think he meant the Sterek extremists rather than the shippers as a whole, that's how I took it in any case, but he sure could have phrased it better or not phrased it at all.

[twisting-vine-x.livejournal.com]

Pretty much all of this.

To start with - you do not shit on your fans. I don't care if you're pissed off about something. You do not insult a giant portion of your show's fanbase. Fans are the reason you have a show. Fans - especially in the case of Teen Wolf, which, in the beginning, had such a hard time gaining credibility - are so often what get a show noticed. And for him to say something so awful about a giant portion of the fans, and especially after Davis and the rest of the cast have, largely, been so supportive of Sterek, pretty much from the get-go - I couldn't believe it. And Hoechlin's and Holland's reactions pretty much summed up how badly Posey fucked up. I'd expect ship-shaming from the homophobic anti-Sterek portion of fandom that calls our ship pedophilia and calls Sterek shippers abuse romanticizers. I did not expect that kind of ship-shaming from a cast member - especially when Teen Wolf, from the start, has marketed itself as a show free of homophobia and judgement.

And secondly - so many people are like, "Oh, poor Posey, he's so sick of being asked about Sterek, stop asking him about Sterek," and good goddammit, guys. He wasn't asked about Sterek. Hoechlin was asked about potential love interests in Derek's life - including a mention of how so many fans would love to see Derek and Stiles together - and it was one question in a long series of questions, for each of the cast members. It was directed at Hoechlin, after Posey had finished discussing the relationships between Scott and Allison, and between Scott and Kira; and it was Posey who jumped in from out of nowhere. And the fact that he did so in such a horrible way that even the interviewer looked a bit shocked - again, I couldn't even believe it. You're upset because a good chunk of fandom loves Stiles and Derek, and watches the show mostly for these characters, and the relationship between them? Too bad. That doesn't give you the right to be a judgmental and borderline-homophobic jerk, and nothing gives an actor the right to tell people how to watch a show. People can watch shows for whatever reasons they want, period, as long as they're respectful about it; and for an actor to tell a giant portion of the fans that they're watching for the wrong reasons? It was a incredibly stupid thing to say, along with being so hurtful.

(Also the fact that Hoechlin kept it together and came back with something sweet and supportive to say about Derek and Stiles' relationship... the very epitome of why I love that man so much. ♥)

And... yeah. I'm just going to stop here, because I could rant about Posey's comments - and the way that fandom then became a giant homophobic bloodbath - all morning. I honestly still can't believe this even happened. And the hatred Sterek fans got from the rest of the fandom for having the goddamn audacity to be offended - it was disgusting. I saw one post telling Sterek shippers to drink cleaning fluid from under the sink. It's just like this one incident brought all the homophobic jerks out of the Teen Wolf woodwork en masse, and I really desperately want to hug everyone in the Sterek fandom who's been so hurt by all of this.

[mf_luder_xf]

I am very grateful for Hoechlin. It's almost amusing given he's a noted Christian, which, if you'd think anyone was disturbed by fan's interest in a homosexual pairing it'd be him; instead he's awesome about it.

I myself have some issues with Sterek fandom at large (particularly those who shove the pairing in the PTB/actors faces), but yeah, I don't understand the random backlash against them as a whole for this. It's amazing how weirdly chosey people can be? Like, one minute, we need to push ships because it gives queer representation and the next those who ship slash pairings are suddenly the bane of the earth and the person who said a very problematic statement is praised because he was picked on. Huh?

Sigh.

[laceymcbain.livejournal.com]

And I am once again grateful that I'm too damn old to care about so much of this kind of stuff. I agree with you, though - fans and journalists need to respect the actors, and actors in turn need to realize that venting their actual opinions on certain things is unnecessary.

I kind of miss the days when someone bitched to their best friend and that was the end of it. Now the whole world feels entitled to get in on the action, and it's definitely not helping the world be more communicative or connected. My 2 cents. ♥

[mf_luder_xf]

I mean, I'm not big into wank, never have been. I hate ship wank and only care about BNFs if they do really bad stuff (ala Cassandra Clare). But issues of fandom at large interest me on an academic and personal level. I just found it interesting timing that after I ranted that people advocating for specific ships to be a show leads to people lashing out at said ships, Posey makes his comments hours later (or its released hours later, anyway). So, to me, looking at people's responses, I had to make a comment. I guess at least less than 10 people even still read my LJ, so I don't think I'm stirring the pot too much.lol

And yeah, I'll give you that, it doesn't help anything. All I can say on my part is this LJ is my fandom BFF. My "RL" friends are the causal TV watchers who only talk about shows they think they should (ala Walking Dead and Breaking Bad) and that's for 5 minutes and done. Again, I guess my saving grace should be that I am such a nobody, it's not like my opinion matters in the grand scheme? I try not to cause problems, even if I feel the need to share my POV.

tw wank etc

[laceymcbain.livejournal.com]

Hm, I realized after the fact that it sounded like I was criticizing anyone who speaks out on fandom issues - and I certainly didn't want to imply that. And there are certainly issues that need to be addressed - I just too often find that the people shouting the loudest are often the people who are polarized on one side or the other, and no one wants to listen to what anyone has to say. And I've been an academic too - I get all the problems with privilege and the like - but so much of what rises to the top of our attention is the stuff that's really petty.

I just didn't want it to sound like I was criticizing you for saying something. I think it's important that people do raise these issues - I guess the peace-maker in me wishes that people could do so with more reasoned debate and less name-calling. :-)