Damned if you do, damned if you don't
Oct. 18th, 2009 02:23 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mf_luder_xfYou know, I don't think I will ever understand the sheer hate that lies in the fandoms of Stargate: Atlantis and Supernatural. I mean, both shows have served their purpose. While there are certainly some writing issues, that happens in every show. But people become so defensive of their characters and it's like, I realize I'm heavily involved too, but IT'S JUST A TV SHOW. And if you really dislike it that much, STOP WATCHING. It's not worth your time and stress, you know?
I have never hated a character I wasn't supposed to (and frankly, that one and only role is Diana Fowley, stupid bitch). I may have extreme dislike (the twins on Heroes), but I don't hate. And I don't understand the need to shove my hate off on others same as i don't get shoving my OTP off on others. I've always been ok with het and slash and kinks and the like. if I'm not interested, I won't read it. But I don't feel the need to rage at someone because their tastes don't line up with mine or blame writers/actors for something I don't particularly like on my show. TV writing is a process of bargaining, much like government. We don't all like the laws passed, but they came out of several people's creations and time and effort. There are as many anti-gun people as pro-gun people. We can't make everyone happy. And quite frankly, I see more people up in arms (heh) about TV show characters than about the things that matter like the ability of criminal offenders to not have to go through background checks. At each stage, multiple people want to see something different from a show. Just watch the movie "The TV Set" with David Duchovny. Prime example of how TV is made. Read Joe Mallozzi's blog. The man is not out to get Sam/Jack shippers or McSheppers or out to kill off Atlantis. He may be a producer, but he still has to deal with the networks and larger forces. He didn't single-handedly cancel Atlantis out of spite. He would have been being double-paid if SGA and SGU were on.
Sometimes, there are legitimate reasons for disliking a show's progression. I gotta admit, the Stargate universe doesn't tend to put people of different colors in the best roles. Teyla and Ronon were underused, Teal'c was an alien, etc, etc. But I don't believe all the main deciders on the production staffs are racist. Not every character on Supernatural gets in the way of the brothers. They enhance their relationship. Two people don't operate in isolation. There will be people, supernatural things trying to manipulate them. How they deal with it is part of what makes the show good. Us vs Them doesn't mean Us and only Us. So for all you Ruby haters, congrats, you outguessed the rest of us. But Jo never did anything to you. She's not evil, she wasn't trying to break up the brothers.
Until recently, I was always in the Wincest camp. And while I can understand not liking Wincest, all you have to do is not read it. Now that I'm reading Dean/Cas, I'm suddenly getting even more of that ("this story is so good I can't believe I read it, there's *Wincest* in it!), and then I'm getting all the Dean/Cas hate from Wincesters. No compatibility, really? And why do we all have to hate one another's ships. GIVE IT A REST. We all talk about toleration and being acceptable of differences; we can't be a bit ship-flexible?
I never understood how there could be so much love and hate for McKay, either. How can you hate a main character of a show and still watch it? People who were so down on any McKay eps made no sense to me. His flaws were what made him interesting. Same with Sheppard, same with Weir, and so on. No one on that show was perfect and that's OK.
I'm not saying don't harsh on my squee. Be critical! Don't handwave over everything. but don't hate on me and my pairing or anyone else's. The great thing about fandom is that you can ignore something. There doesn't need to be confrontation. But no one character is useless (except the twins in Heroes, lol); they all have some purpose to the plot line. whether you like that purpose or not is another matter.
My point is, like, don't like who you will. But maybe, if you really hate someone so much, you should stop watching. Or maybe you should take off your hate-goggles and just try to enjoy the show. I mean, I by no means love all the characters at the same time. I've been very upset with Dean until the end of 5x5. I'm still somewhat annoyed at Cas. Sheppard was never forgiven by me for never forgiving McKay of his actions on Duranda. But that doesn't mean I hate the characters. We're dealing with human beings and "the real world". It's not perfect and it certainly can't satisfy everyone.
I've just never seen so much hate in any fandom except these two. I mean, even the Scully hate isn't as extreme (ok, Doggett/Reyes hate comes closer but still no dice), and somehow Heroes manages to be pretty friendly even when the writers ARE fucking it up so bad.
Sometimes, I find myself too middle of the road for this life.
(And in case you're wondering, this isn't directed at any one person/post/whatever. These things bubble up from time to time and I'm sort of annoyed with all the SGU hate right now as well as the Ruby and Castiel hate.)
I have never hated a character I wasn't supposed to (and frankly, that one and only role is Diana Fowley, stupid bitch). I may have extreme dislike (the twins on Heroes), but I don't hate. And I don't understand the need to shove my hate off on others same as i don't get shoving my OTP off on others. I've always been ok with het and slash and kinks and the like. if I'm not interested, I won't read it. But I don't feel the need to rage at someone because their tastes don't line up with mine or blame writers/actors for something I don't particularly like on my show. TV writing is a process of bargaining, much like government. We don't all like the laws passed, but they came out of several people's creations and time and effort. There are as many anti-gun people as pro-gun people. We can't make everyone happy. And quite frankly, I see more people up in arms (heh) about TV show characters than about the things that matter like the ability of criminal offenders to not have to go through background checks. At each stage, multiple people want to see something different from a show. Just watch the movie "The TV Set" with David Duchovny. Prime example of how TV is made. Read Joe Mallozzi's blog. The man is not out to get Sam/Jack shippers or McSheppers or out to kill off Atlantis. He may be a producer, but he still has to deal with the networks and larger forces. He didn't single-handedly cancel Atlantis out of spite. He would have been being double-paid if SGA and SGU were on.
Sometimes, there are legitimate reasons for disliking a show's progression. I gotta admit, the Stargate universe doesn't tend to put people of different colors in the best roles. Teyla and Ronon were underused, Teal'c was an alien, etc, etc. But I don't believe all the main deciders on the production staffs are racist. Not every character on Supernatural gets in the way of the brothers. They enhance their relationship. Two people don't operate in isolation. There will be people, supernatural things trying to manipulate them. How they deal with it is part of what makes the show good. Us vs Them doesn't mean Us and only Us. So for all you Ruby haters, congrats, you outguessed the rest of us. But Jo never did anything to you. She's not evil, she wasn't trying to break up the brothers.
Until recently, I was always in the Wincest camp. And while I can understand not liking Wincest, all you have to do is not read it. Now that I'm reading Dean/Cas, I'm suddenly getting even more of that ("this story is so good I can't believe I read it, there's *Wincest* in it!), and then I'm getting all the Dean/Cas hate from Wincesters. No compatibility, really? And why do we all have to hate one another's ships. GIVE IT A REST. We all talk about toleration and being acceptable of differences; we can't be a bit ship-flexible?
I never understood how there could be so much love and hate for McKay, either. How can you hate a main character of a show and still watch it? People who were so down on any McKay eps made no sense to me. His flaws were what made him interesting. Same with Sheppard, same with Weir, and so on. No one on that show was perfect and that's OK.
I'm not saying don't harsh on my squee. Be critical! Don't handwave over everything. but don't hate on me and my pairing or anyone else's. The great thing about fandom is that you can ignore something. There doesn't need to be confrontation. But no one character is useless (except the twins in Heroes, lol); they all have some purpose to the plot line. whether you like that purpose or not is another matter.
My point is, like, don't like who you will. But maybe, if you really hate someone so much, you should stop watching. Or maybe you should take off your hate-goggles and just try to enjoy the show. I mean, I by no means love all the characters at the same time. I've been very upset with Dean until the end of 5x5. I'm still somewhat annoyed at Cas. Sheppard was never forgiven by me for never forgiving McKay of his actions on Duranda. But that doesn't mean I hate the characters. We're dealing with human beings and "the real world". It's not perfect and it certainly can't satisfy everyone.
I've just never seen so much hate in any fandom except these two. I mean, even the Scully hate isn't as extreme (ok, Doggett/Reyes hate comes closer but still no dice), and somehow Heroes manages to be pretty friendly even when the writers ARE fucking it up so bad.
Sometimes, I find myself too middle of the road for this life.
(And in case you're wondering, this isn't directed at any one person/post/whatever. These things bubble up from time to time and I'm sort of annoyed with all the SGU hate right now as well as the Ruby and Castiel hate.)
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no subject
Date: 2009-10-18 08:42 pm (UTC)I like Sam/Dean and Dean/Cas. I don't know why these things are supposedly mutially exclusive or something. Can't we just have Sam/Dean/Cas and call it a day. :-)
And then there's Ruby. You know that's the one I truly, truly hate, right up there with DF. What you may not know is that I was preparing myself for Kripke going the other way. I was releaved when that didn't happen, but I think I was at least half expecting this. As for Jo, I started out not exactly hating her, but not thrilled with her either. I warmed up to her later--the episode where Sam's possessed; she was great in that. If they wanted her to be more than annoying in those early episodes they should have tried either pairing her with Sam or making her the kid sister from early on. She was just way too young for Dean and it looked really odd on screen. It was never a, oh she's coming between them thing, it was this chemistry is for shit thing.
no subject
Date: 2009-10-18 10:05 pm (UTC)I don't understand trashing the show to people who very obviously like it or giving people a hard time about what part of the show they like and who their favourite characters are. To go to a producer's blog and harrass him is going too far.
no subject
Date: 2009-10-18 11:51 pm (UTC)To go to a producer's blog and harrass him is going too far.
I agree. Especially when he's nice enough to even hold one and respond to comments.
And I can understand the weariness with the network/franchise. Something like that makes sense. But you don't hate SGU in general. And on top of that, you're not watching it. So while I might tell you to give it a chance, I can certainly understand your hesitancy. But the main thing is, you're not bashing me (or anyone else) for liking it. And that's just what I will never understand.
no subject
Date: 2009-10-18 11:42 pm (UTC)Most of the hate comes from the fact that they think SGA was cancelled just for SGU. They ignore all the other factors like scripts were already pitched for a S6, that one's budget doesn't affect the other, etc.
I find myself bored for a few moments of each ep, but I also like it better each episode. I'm already invested in several of the characters. And I'm a whore for sci-fi, I'd probably watch it anyway.
I don't get why they're mutually exclusive, either. you can do so much. Threesomes (I read one last night even), Sam moving on, Dean refusing to "sully" his brother anymore, Dean falling in actual love for Cas rather than sibling love, and so forth. But as I said, people are really defensive.
You're right, the chemistry was sort of off for Dean and Jo. but it made sense, too. I mean, she was college-age and I like older men. And Dean hits on everything (he made lines referring to 2 18 year old cheerleaders in the school ep). I liked her right away and thought it played well. But yes, it was odd much the same way I really disliked Matt and Daphne (Heroes) onscreen. Like, Matt's intentions were cute, but she looked 15 and is tiny, he's in his mid 30's and a tall, large man. It was the weirdest pairing ever.