Discussion Time

[mf_luder_xf]

In The Female Eunuch, Germaine Greer notes how the language of affection reduces women to foods and baby animals--honey, lamb, sugar, sweetie-pie, kitten, chick.

Discuss!

Comments

[autumndandelion.livejournal.com]

I've read her book The Change but haven't read this one.

I can't explain the food, but as far as baby animals, women are stereotypically viewed as weak and in need of protection. Men also tend to marry women who are younger than them. It's another subtle form of sexism in our culture. Meanwhile, men tend to be called things like studs and stallions - strong and virile adult horses. Or men are called pigs when they're... well, when they're acting like pigs.

Notice the only time women are referred to as an adult animal is when it's an insult. A woman is called a bitch when she'd be called assertive if she were male. A woman is called a hen when she's talking to her female friends, because women can't have anything important to say but are rather just clucking away.

Okay, maybe I can explain the food terms of endearment. You can use any of those for a man too. In fact, I've heard more women call men "honey" than the other way around.

[ahkna.livejournal.com]

In the 21st century Western, post-feminist society, it has become commonplace for women to question all the possibly sexist language as it relates to women and in this way, misogyny has been replaced by misandry.

You would call a man out for calling a woman a bitch or a cow but reinforced negative and equally sexist male language. In my experience when men are "acting like pigs" it is meant that men are acting sexist or inappropriate in another way not that they're oinking and eating out of a trough.

Whoa, I didn't mean to get so defensive there. I'm majoring in gender history at school and I often run across a gynocentric perspective with a misandric twist yet claims to attempting to create equality.

[autumndandelion.livejournal.com]

The pig comment was a joke.

[mf_luder_xf]

See, I'm not your typical feminist, but this is one of those things that just offends me. I use some of these words (honey and then "dear") only to friends and more often than not, it's us joking about it. I recently realized in a number of songs the men sing "little girl" to the woman they're supposedly serenading and man, does that get my goat. It does just seem...not so much sexist...more as condescending. Often such terms are accompanied with petting or patting and that only seems to reinforce a child-like tone and symbolism. Ugh.

Thanks so much for your comment!! Was her other book good? What does it cover?

[autumndandelion.livejournal.com]

The Change is a book about menopause. I read it for my psychology of midlife women class; it was a graduate course I took as an undergrad at the University of South Carolina. That was several years ago. I enjoyed it and learned a lot about what the experience entails. I plan to read it again when I'm actually going through menopause, but that's years away.

I've been called a femi-nazi before, but really, I'm not very extreme. I consider myself an equalist, not a feminist. It's just ridiculous how women aren't taken seriously in many cases, even today, by both men and women. Women have to prove themselves as fans, rather than just into something because they think some guy has a hot ass. I've run across that so often in NASCAR especially. My father's a casual fan, and the rest of us are waaaay into it, but he's the one people talk to about the sport, and they assume he's the one who got us into it. No. He's never been to a race. I'm the one who got into it first in this household and got my mother and sister hooked. But, you know, we're just into it because we think the drivers are cute.

:: rolls eyes ::

Language like that really is condescending. What drives me nuts is that you'll hear boys called "little man" in so many songs and yet women are girls or "little girls".

[mf_luder_xf]

Oh, I hear you on the sports thing!! I'm very much a girly girl...but I LOVE my sports. Girls tend to think I like them because I want to hang out with the guys, or yeah, just stare. And most guys don't believe me when I say it, until they sit down and actually watch me watch a game. My sunday's are reserved for football. And my uncles, who helped raise me on the sport...half the time they still treat me like I don't know what I'm talking about. *shakes head*

I'm not very extreme. I consider myself an equalist, not a feminist.

Yup, yup.

What drives me nuts is that you'll hear boys called "little man" in so many songs and yet women are girls or "little girls".

OMG yes. Although, I think if I were a man, I'd still be offended by that...but not as much. I actually think its our society degrading itself so it doesn't have to even try to be smart. Along with constantly reinforcing childish terms and body language, the education system gets dumber by the year...

*gets off soap box*

[ladydreadlock.livejournal.com]

I never really thought about that before. It could also be noted that many affectionate terms applied to women are also used on children.

I dont know about anyone else but I have always found the word "baby", when applied to anyone over the age 3 rather repulsive. I can't stand when couples refer to each other as "baby".
To quote Scully, "'baby' me and you'll be peeing through a catheter."

[mf_luder_xf]

Yes, YES!! You pretty much summed up my whole opinion on the matter. I find it not so much sexist as condescending (as I described a little above in another response).

And I LOVED that line of Scully's.

Thanks for responding!!

[griva-x.livejournal.com]

I guess it all goes back to prehistorical times. Women were smthg to conquer and protect, also "to consume", virtually speaking. And actually, I don't mind such endearments. I prefer to stay away from over-analyzing.

Then...what endearments we use when addressing men? Hmmm.

OTT: I just watched the last ep of Heroes. Wow. It was a coold one. And I liked EnragedPeter. And damn, I still think the best chemistry he has, is with the Invisible Man. *g*

[mf_luder_xf]

*ignores Heroes comment cause she hasn't seen last three eps yet*

I find, as dearjoanwallace pointed out above, men get endearments that speak of bigger things. Sure, women call them honey. Baby, from time to time (which I will just never understand). But have you seen the original Grease? At the end, Olivia Newton John comes out in her black leather and says something along the lines of "What's up, stud?" That's just something that has always irritated me.

And then in slash I read men calling each other disgustingly sweet endearments and I want to rip out my hair because do we really think Sam and Dean, were they having sex, would call each other baby? In such a sense it jars me out of a scene.

In real life...to each his own. I love hearing opinions. Thanks for commenting!!

[griva-x.livejournal.com]

You haven't seen the last 3 eps of Heroes? Were you travelling to the Monn? /is teasing/

Well, I see it natural (though it does not mean I like it or do it myself) that in general women would call men *stud* or use a word that stresses virility, strength. It would be weirder if we called men "hey, honeybee" or "hey, hamster!". *g* I think tender endearments (like baby) can be used in slash, but you should not overdo them unless you turn your men into pitiful sissies.

Personally, I call my hub by my name and so does he. Or I call him "husband" and he calls me "wife". In Russian you can easily turn your name into endearment (Alexander-> Sashenka, Olga -> Olenka, Anna -> Anechka), that compensates for *honey*, which is never used in Russian. Although of course people also address each other as dear or beloved. My hub sometimes calls me *rybka* which is "little fish" but he does that when he wants to annoy me.

[mf_luder_xf]

LOL, no, not the moon. Just in the land of 24. And it seems it's actually 4 eps.

See, now that? That I don't mind. I love nicknames. For example (using my "fake" name), I actually don't like it so much when people call me Lucy as when they call me Lu. I only use "Lucy" as a professional thing. I hand in papers and sign emails with "Lu". I think it's beautiful that the Russian language has different, yet beautiful names for one another. And husband and wife wouldn't bother me at all...since that's a fact. Calling me "baby" would irritate me because I am no such thing.

And I've always loved "beloved". I read a book where the whole time a couple was engaged they constantly called each other their "betrothed".

[samincittagazze.livejournal.com]

Best. Icon. Evah. *lusts*

dearjoanwallace pretty much said what I was going to about the baby animal thing, so I'll just add about the food - all the foods used as 'pet names' are sweet, sugary, etc etc. It ties in with the idea of women being "sugar and spice and all things nice"; cute and sweet and completely without substance or complexity, basically. I know now-a-days these words are also used for men but they were originally coined for women.

[mf_luder_xf]

Hee--thanks! foxestacado is always an amazing icon maker.

I know now-a-days these words are also used for men but they were originally coined for women.

Yup, yup, totally agree with your comment.

Thanks for participating!!

[unhobbityhobbit.livejournal.com]

Ugh, spent far too many lessons of English Language looking at that exact subject. Also how so many insults are female animals (bitch, cow etc.). SO I have decided that I can't be bothered to read that much into it any more because I've written at least 3 essays on the topic already.

[mf_luder_xf]

LOL I imagine that must get annoying after a while.

Thanks for commenting!

[motorwill.livejournal.com]

You mean we're not sugar and spice and everything nice? *is crushed* :P

Three out of five of those words are generally used on males, too, so people aren't getting "reduced" when they're in love with each other and use sappy words.

And it sounds offensive if you try to use a "non-reducing" word: "Woman, come back here and fix me a sandwich." I'd much rather prefer 'baby'. :)

[mf_luder_xf]

Hmm, now your last statement is interesting. I agree with that as well. I guess that's why I'm a stickler for names. IMO...I have a name. Use it. LOL

Thanks for joining in, Dusty!

[motorwill.livejournal.com]

I guess that's why I'm a stickler for names.
Yeah, me too. I love names, I think there's too many facets in people for them to be addressed under just one name.

I forgot to add, most of it has to do with who says it. If some random guy called me baby, I'd want to go Scully on him. But my mother calls me "child", a word that sounds condescending at face value, but I know her and what she means, so it's endearing.

[ahkna.livejournal.com]

Feminism drives me crazy in that way. I see it like this: women a) taste really good, especially when covered in said foods and b) are really, really soft, like baby animals (luckily not in the same way, but still)

[mf_luder_xf]

LOL Your last comment is funny.

Thanks for commenting!!

[mahoni.livejournal.com]

Hrm. Well, since the same words are used as terms of affection towards men too, I have trouble getting my feminist ire up.

[mf_luder_xf]

Heh. I'll admit, I've always like the "sugar" coming from a southern accent. :-D

[mf_luder_xf]

Hmmm, now that is interesting. I think that's definitely a big factor in it.

Ever seen the movie, Only You, with Robert Downey Jr? Anyway, it has a scene perfect to your comment where the man calls his wife "doll" and she gets upset. He responds, "you used to love it when I called you doll". And she answers, "you don't say it like you used to." very interesting, indeed.

Thanks for the comments!!